Can you forbidden lance a monster with 0 atk




















Edit: Okay, my original thoughts were kind of correct, I missed the part with Lance being used, but thats completely irrelevant as for that turn, it'd be same situation as 2. Afterward is where the issue arises, so my original thoughts:.

I'm kind of going by the King of Skull Servants ruling where if the number of cards changes after its summoned, the attack won't change. So essentially, the effect that determines its attack becomes a non-factor. I don't see why Skull Drain would change that. It creates a new ATK value.

Which is what skill drain is doing. Yeah, but Trag's effect isn't really pertaining to the situation, as the attack is determined by Black Garden when Trag is summoned, not by Trag's effect, isn't it? Or am I misinterpreting how that with KotSS ruling works? I would assume that Trag's attack stays at whatever Black Garden put it at even after Skill Drain is active because Trag's effect is no longer determining its attack.

Well, assuming slick's earlier posting to the 2nd question, if it's correct, then Trag would remember Black Garden's value as there is no other value for its attack to go to.

I think for the second scenario you gave, since Trag's effect is active and not negated, it would be x cards in hand - Once Forbidden Lance wears off though, Trag would go back to Now, my main question about that is if Trag would have the applied to it at all. The reasoning being that when Lance resolves, Trag's attack is 0, and the attack cannot go below 0.

So, Lance makes Trag's attack 0, then his effect would be applied, making it x cards in hand , if that makes sense. Out of sheer curiosity, why does Black Garden keep Trag's attack set to a single value? I don't completely understand how that works. If that were the case, then his attack would constantly fluctuate, and Black Garden would have no effect on Trag's attack. But, as shown by the King of the Skull Servant ruling, it doesn't change. Trag's original attack is determined when its summoned.

Then Black Garden halves that, and Black Garden's effect is permanent. As for why it doesn't change after that, I don't really know, it might just be a KSS. For anyone curious and too lazy to look it up, here's the ruling about Black Garden and King of the Skull Servants, which is causing my questioning of whether or not Skill Drain will effect Trag's attack:.

That rule is what is making me believe that Black Garden determines Trag's attack, and not Tragoedia's effect. Which, if thats the case, then Skill Drain won't do anything to Trag's attack. Black Garden halves that, so his attack is at at all times.

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