If you have a special condition you think could have fooled him, and should have been controlled for, then you should have said what it was. His test was simple but conclusive.
Casting vague shade at his clear results is beneath you. Ted made a very casual statement but provided no evidence of how he did the comparison.
That seems fair. Ted make some claims that are not supported by current science and i explained why, and so he can show us his data and explain how he did the controls. I stand by my earlier conclusion.
I have used extreme gardening Mycorrhizae on 5 of my 40 clones from the same strain, those 5 out performed the other 35 hands down. Also be sure it is single species and contains at least propagules per gram. I am not trying to sell the product but it does work for sure with organic soil not sure how it would work with synthetics.
Synthetic soils are artificial, without natural dirt. Usually have a base of peat or coir, drainage components like perlite or pumice, and sometimes but not always organic components like compost, castings, and organic fertilizers. The number does matter. You overestimating their propagation speed. This is settled science. If there is so much evidence that mycorrhizal fungi work in farming, why is it that you have not provided a single link to a scientific study supporting your claim?
I am not a scientist, and I respect science. Never used any form of powdered spores on any of the trees I have planted, so no experience with the product itself. Now, for large commercial growing applications, I could see where this is likely ideal since anything that increases quality of a product also has an economic benefit.
I for one, neither professionally nor on my property, have ever used the product. The thought has never crossed my mind until I saw it being advertised. In response to, reduced fungal activity due to tilling pr any disruption of soil, again what is being grown? If you are fighting a short season and if you are trying to get the fastest turnaround for profit from food crops etc, then yes, undoubtedly you would want to innoculate. Years ago I designed and a low tech mushroom endeavor that had the capacity for lbs of gourmet mushrooms weekly.
What I learned pretty early on is that a lot can go wrong on myceliums path to fruiting or sporing out, and in a sterile lab it is a very weak body. I would not reccomend using specific strains of mycelium added for innoculants as this is too narrow of a spectrum. When taken away from the natural network environment you get disproportioned information and health along the mycelial network. If the mycelium was produced within the local area, using methods able to incorporate local soil information, then you would be more in the ballpark of seeing the higher end of benefits that these fungi can provide.
Undoubtedly these fungi will grow better plants when mycorhiza are present vs sterile soil, I dont think anyone here is negating that fact. Big agriculture is destroying this network, and we can see this from the bee decline. Look into Paul Staments research on this topic, check out what he had to say on this when he received his advanced medical award.
The closer you can mimic nature the more benefits we will get, and from many things we have yet to discover. Too long of reply, apologies. Sum up, Growing fruit products, yes inoculate your plants and trees etc to make faster production and healthier products… if your killing your soil. Or stop killing your soil. When I mean soil I mean both seeding soil and bed soil.
If your in the flower or aesthetic agriculture business, really not as much of a concern, I dont imagine you would till a field to grow flower bulbs.
Fungi will incorporate over time from spores in the air. I think there is an element missing from this conversation and it would be what method of farming are you using? Is this a new garden bed or an established one?. If you have an established garden where mycorhiza have plenty for association and food, it would be the same as any wooded area and would be much more beneficial to feed them rather than incorporate more.
This is the reason wood chips, sawdust or leaf mulches can have such amazing result, most of which farmers are ignorant, most think it is just water retention. In the case of typical farming where tilling is used, or if there are no plants in the soil prior to planting, then you have essentially a desert. Most of the ecology of the soil will die, the plants do ok in the short run as they are able to absorb from the dead bacteria and fungi, but it is a slow cycle of death.
In this case innoculants would help, but you would still be better off if you have some wooded area, to bring some of the leaf litter onto that soil and cover immediately with a wood mulch.
If this is a garden bed for vegetables, mycorhiza should be incorporated with the seeding soil mix, as you want the plant to have the quickest growth possible. The main issue in agriculture today is that we grow to destroy ecosystems not to create and regenerate.
Otherwise we would not have monocrops, we would have complete interplanting from veggies to bushes to trees and vines. When everything is planted to create a perfect ecosystem for a forest of plants, indeed innoculant would be redundant. Unfortunately we live in no such world. It is true that tilling reduces fungal populations, and maybe even microbial populations. But the key question is, will adding additional fungal products make a difference in such a situation?
You need to do a lot more reading about soil ecology. There is no way that overwatering and over fertilising is a practice to condone, this is killing the planet for humans ref Gulf of Mexico dead zone. Even in fertile soils mycorrhiza and companions are necessary for optimum plant and human nutrition trace elements biochemicals , they are the main factor in building soil carbon and natural structure.
I never said it was not important. Hi Robert, I have to agree with Duncan in that your science and your knowledge-base is not sufficient to be writing on this topic.
The plants form associations with multiple fungal species at the same time and the benefits range from mineral and nutrient acquisition particularly phosphorus , to water collection, to disease prevention, to drought tolerance, to inter-connectedness between plants of the same and different species. Your statements seems to reflect simple intuitions that appear logical but are only scratching the surface of this vast and complex topic.
You are over-simplifing to the point of being irrelevant. If you read any of my material, including this post, you will realize that I report on what scientists say.
If you have such evidence, present it so it can be discussed. Nor have you pointed out any fact in the article that you consider to be incorrect — I guess you agree with my statements.
One is a broken link to a publication by Dr. Chalker-Scott, who appears to have published once on mycorrhizae in a non-peer reviewed periodical. The other is a photo credit. Where are your references for the claims that you make? There are also countless examples of greenhouse grown and field grown plants that show the benefits of mycorrrhizae.
Why would a garden be any different? There is also a consilience of evidence that shows that the different species used in commercial production associate with a wide variety of plant species and these species such as Glomus intraradices, for example, are cosmopolitan found all over the world and in association with many different plant species. Synthetic fertilizers, herbicides, pesticides, grass seed are all heat sensitive and they are shipped world-wide with good efficacy.
Kapulnik and D. Douds Jr. These are real scientific publications with peer-review, not opinion pieces written by non-experts. You are very good at asking others for references but lack the rigour to provide your own.
Please stop spreading misinformation. I think you missed the point of what I said. I agree mycorrhizal fungi are import to plants. What I disagree with is that adding them to your garden will make any difference. Robert, I will attempt a more direct question. What is it about a garden environment that is so different from the rest of the outdoors, labs, etc. How is the soil environment of a garden not conducive to mycorrhizal fungal survival?
You have made authoritative statements with neither scientific references nor sound arguments to back them up. That is the problem here. Are you aware that mycorrhizal mycelia can create vast networks that encompass miles of underground area. The mycorrhizae in your garden could be gathering nutrients and water from miles away.
You must provide references or an argument, otherwise, this is just your opinion and it is not presented clearly as an opinion only.
I have looked for scientific evidence that adding fungi to soil results in a change in populations in a real world environment. I have not been able to find such evidence. If you have such evidence, I would be happy to look at it. But it needs to include controls, showing the change in fungi populations in the garden.
That is step one. Step two then is show that the change results in a benefit to the plants. I have discussed this topic with 3 researchers working with mycorrhizal fungi and they all agree that it is unlikely that there is any benefit to adding them to a garden environment.
I think I am beginning to understand your logic now. You have not found any evidence, therefore, none exits. Is that accurate?
It is doubtful that any academic papers have been published on the effects of mycorrhizal fungi specifically in gardens if that is what you are looking for. I would imagine that the main reason for this is that it is much easier to secure funding for agricultural or restoration research.
Also, I am not aware of any academic research labs that do gardening studies. That being said, the scientific literature is flush with support for the influence of mycorrhizae on soil ecology and plant benefits. There is no reason to expect a garden to be different. You have been asked to provide references but you have not provided any despite claiming that you have discussed with 3 different mycorrhizal researchers. How about providing their names at least?
The science shows the benefit of fungi once in the soil. It does not show the benefit of adding more to the soil. This also applies to anecdotal evidence as the person giving that could be in a totally different environment to you.
Or cynically, they might be pushing an agenda for whatever reason. So where does it leave us keen amateur gardeners? Each of us have to do our own research! By all means read the research to give you ideas to try. In the same way watch Youtube to suggest a possible idea. But in the end, go into your garden and do these trials yourself.
And use the ones that work for you. Happy gardening! It is not difficult for research to establish controls. It is true, that when such a test is done in only one location, it can be difficult to extrapolate the results. Does something that works in Florida work in the north, for example.
In the absence of science we need to rely on experience — ours and others. What is critical here is to evaluate the quality of the advice — how much do you trust it? Interesting information. I have my doubts about the need to purchase fungi products. I have a plot of forest that I use for my own garden research, especially for improving water retention during droughts.
So far the best products I have used for plant health and water conservation is wood chips and leaf litter which mimics what naturally occurs on a forest floor.
These break down within a year, sometimes less, and provide nice rich soil. The herbaceous layer of the forest has improved and so have the plants. My soil is primarily clay except for the upper horizon. Most plants seem to do well in the clay but there are challenges.
HIRobert You asked for referance about any benifits on adding fungi or bactiera to the soil, have you never workrd with compost teas, i spent last summer running a trial to degrade thatch on golf greens.
We worked with white rot fungie theses are the good guys braking down the matter in the woodlands. Infact they use the Phanerochaete Fungi all over the world to clean up soils you should take a look its amazing how they are saving 10,s of soil going into land fill by just adding them to contaminated soils. Im not sure why it would be so different with fungi. There are times when a population dips to the point of disaster and adding to the population will change the balance just enough to cause that population to become viable.
After the initial inoculation, one rarely needs to inoculate again, in the case of bacteria, and likely for fungi as well. But, in rare cases, I have had to reintroduce bacteria to an existing population because, for some reason, the bacteria had dropped to dangerously low levels. Once added, the boost in numbers effects the balances in the water in a way that helps further bacteria to repopulate on their own.
Use on vegetables, flowers fruits and herbs. In 14 of the top 20 pumpkins grown in the world used WOW Premium Mycorrhizal Inoculant , including the Paton's pound pumpkin! Mycorrhizal fungi benefits are endless. Mycorrhiza provides plants with the greatest benefit for the smallest amount of dollars and input.
A single mycorrhizal inoculation is capable of transforming the ordinary garden into a WOW garden! To learn more about Mycorrhizal fungi, click here. Mix 1 pound per 4 cu. Be sure to add teaspoons per plant site in addition to your amending process. Broadcast and incorporate by tilling or hand mixing into the soil with the seed. Nursery Applications : Sowing medium, thoroughly mix pounds per yard.
Transplant potting medium : Incorporate at a rate of 2. Seed Starting - Small bags Mix 6oz per 1. For sod, sprinkle it dry or spray the liquid on the soil right before laying the sod, or even better, right on the bottom of the sod I know that can be time-consuming. You could spray it on after as well. The other choice would be to apply the mycorrhizal fungi products to existing landscapes. For trees and shrub beds, grab a garden fork and poke a lot of holes around the feeder root zone, away from the trunk.
For turf, it is best to do this right after aerating so that more of the spores get down to the roots. Otherwise, it can be watered in, but will not be as effective on heavy clay or very compacted soils.
Mixing several smaller batches rather than using the entire amount at once helps ensure even distribution. The powder can be mixed with other microbial products and organic fertilizers and applied at the same time, although there is no benefit to foliar feeding with mycorrhizal fungi products, as they need to touch the roots.
Mix with tepid water to avoid temperature shock, or mix into compost for even distribution in the soil. If mixing with water, use liters for a full bag of g, or liters for g, or 50 liters for the starter size of g; generally, a heaping tablespoon of powder 30g in 10 liters of water will cover 1, square feet.
Start by pre-mixing the powder with a small amount of water and dilute gradually. Keep agitating the tank or shake the watering can or spray bottle so the product stays in suspension. Should the spray equipment become clogged, remove the filter or adjust the nozzle to make larger drops. Use 30g a heaping tablespoon of powder mixed with 10 liters of water per 1, square feet. You could use even less than that but it just becomes an issue of how to work with such tiny amounts, the best answer often being to mix the powder in water and spray all of the roots at once, which is certainly faster.
The other option, which for some reason I do more often, is to dust the wet roots with the dry powder by hand, doing a bunch of them at once. Hope that helps. You put a chart showing that Orchids do not respond to this type of mycorrhizal fungus. Do you know what type do they grow in? Should water be warm?
Do i need to kill cholrine in water? Morning or evening? Most Sincerely Charles Boone. Hi Phil! Just placed my order with you. But I done research and finally made my decisions. Cannot wait to incorporate them in! Thank you for doing all this research and making this way of organic gardening easy to understand! You have totally changed my way of thinking about how to grow organically!! What is the ratio of your mix and water in the 5 gallon bucket for bare root Red Raspberry plants?
Sorry for the delay on this — I wanted to ask the producer of this inoculant. If you water, mix 1 Tbsp of powder per gallon of water and apply 1 quart per plant, which would be 1. Hope that helps! Thank you for your reply, Phil.
If I were to apply a water-powder solution to the roots of the Raspberry canes, how much water and solution would you recommend? Would this be poured onto the roots or sprayed onto the roots? Make sure the powder gets dissolved before going through the sprayer, perhaps in some warm not too hot water.
I grow orchids and recently purchased a terrestrial from a grower who mentioned he plants all of his terrestrials in a peat moss that is mychorrhizal inoculated to help prevent fungus. I called later and spoke to his associate who says they were unable to source the specific product they typically use.
I am wondering if I could use your product with the sphagnum moss I have, mix it with perlite and achieve the same medium he was using. Do you have any experience or know of anyone with orchid experience and mychorrizal inoculated medium? Orchids are one of the few species of plants that form relationships with different types of mycorrhizal fungi, not the ones I sell.
Good luck! If I took this product, tilled the soil to get ready for planting vegetable garden , how much would I need to use and or would I add anything else needed? Sorry if this has already be addressed, but I am an commercial organic vegetable farmer on 8 acres. Also, when the crop is finished and we till in the bed, how likely can there be a high survival rate of the fungi after two passes with the tractor? Thank you! Sorry for the delay.
The mycorrhizae will remain with the roots of the crops. There certainly will be an effect but there may be enough in the bed to inoculate the next crop. That will always vary. Generally growers will add it again if they are tillingm but often at lower rates. I have about Black walnut saplings in the ground for years. Some are doing very well but most are piddling along.
I have emailed 2 other sites but for some reason get no response. How can I buy mycorrhizae for my plants? Do I need to break up the root ball to apply the mycorrhizae? Do I just put a bit on any portion available?
Do I need to cover the whole thing? I make my own compost and worm castings that I add whenever I plant something new. What are your thoughts about this?
Just a pinch on 1 side of each root ball will do. That makes sense. I am wondering…this will need to be done yearly as most of the plants in a vegetable garden are annual. I am guessing that the fungi cannot survive from one season to another. I can also, yearly, coat the seed like you say in my transplant containers and they should be ready to go once I teansplant into the garden?
Will the fungi do okay in the seedling container for the month-or-so they are indoors? Do you recommend anything else for the raised bed garden? And the fungi will be fine in the container. As for other recommendations, yes, I recommend everything I sell, but nothing specific for raised beds that would be different from regular beds.
Is the mycorrhizal inoculant the same as or better than IBA indolebutyric acid to use as a rooting hormone when planting cuttings? I want to start some cuttings from my Japanese Maple, how would you do this? Since the cuttings have no roots how would you apply the Endomycorrhizal Fungi?
I buy compost from our local county government by the dump truck load and grow peppers. My understanding is to treat just the transplants not the whole load of compost? Would there be an advantage to treating the whole 20 yards? You can put the powder on anyway, as the roots will come soon. Just treat the plants.
You can treat the whole garden with these, as the roots will eventually spread everywhere. Augustine Lawn for maintenance?. The endo usually just needs to happen once on a lawn, as the fungi should get established and then stay there for good. It is for project about introduction of Pseudotsuga menziesi in central europe.
Is there some chance to buy this specific species from you? Love your informative website! I purchased your Beginner Gardner three item set. The products arrived the day after I planted 50 plants in a garden pocket tower and ten additional edible plants and flowers in terra-cotta plants.
Planted Thursday. Your Beginner Kit arrived Saturday. Can I just sprinkle some of the endow powder on the roots of each planted plant by simply moving soil aside and dropping a pinch on each side of root ball?
How best to apply the third liquid in the Beginners Kit to my recently planted 72 hours ago garden pocket tower and potted plants? You could, but easier and just as effective in this case would be to mix the powder with water and just water each plant.
This only needs to be done once. Mix it with water in a spray bottle at 1 teaspoon per cup of water and spray the leaves. You could also include 1 Tbsp per quart of water when watering the soil with the fungi. This can be done weekly or monthly.
You could also include 1 teaspoon per quart of water when watering the soil with the fungi, but just do that once. I look forward to applying your recommendation ASAP!
Hello, hello! My plan is to let it settle over the next three months before planting. Here is my question. Do I apply the Endomycorrhizal innoculant now even though there are no plants in the garden or wait until I plant it in about three months? Hi Phil, would mycorrhizal fungi work on macadamia trees, i have just received my first trees that i will be planting soon. Is that a pure innoculant?
Hello, Im considering using mycorrhizal fungi in my vegetable garden. I use neem oil to control pest but it is also listed as a fungicide too. Do you have any experience using neem oil and growing fungi? Will the application of diluted neem oil negativly affect mycorrhizal growth? Hello, I am considering using mycorrizal incolulant in my vegetable garden.
I use neem oil to control pest but it is also listed as a fungicide. Do you use both in the same garden? Will the neem oil negatively affect mycorrizal growth in my garden when applied to my plant leaves? Hi, I am doing a research project that involves inoculating Brassica juncea Kodiak Mustard to cleanse soil around tailing ponds to reclaim land especially in Alberta, Canada. I have read from another scientist that you can obtain AM fungi from a plant outside, like a sidewalk plant.
You can dry the plants root, grind them down and apply it to your plant. How can this work! Please let me know as soon as you can!!
Hello, thank you in advance. Can I apply your product to plants already potted? Will it leach into the soil and benefit them. Hi Phil, Tx for the email follow up on my purchases. Am already excited about apparent results with endo powder I used on some sprouted seedlings I started in paper towel medium and transferred to soil blocks. Planted beet seedlings in pots earlier to set a jump start on these little guys and they developed first leaves, but did not grow much in height.
Started some more after receiving the endo powder and just applied to the single root before sinking into the soil block. Dramatic difference within 3 day…. I know that the first group will have substantially more developed root system, but what a difference!!! Iris from seeds…. So just planted 10 raspberries in a new patch. Dusted with endo powder and watered in well with Pro-bio, seaweed and molasses in hose end sprayer…. I hope to see great results in the ground!!
I also am interested in this BIO-char product and possibly some home production….. Thanks for sharing, Alexis. It may be worth experimenting with. Just purchased some of your product. I recently planted bare root shrubs, berries, grapevines and trees.
Can a small diameter plant stake be forced down into the roots and pour a small amount of mixed product into the holes to get it to the roots? If so what concentration? Yes, the rule of thumb is 1 teaspoon for smaller plants and teaspoons for bigger plants. During the growing season, do I need to continue to feed the mycorrhizae if so how much and with what?
No, once is all you need.
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